Two things to do with politics I suppose and I have vowed never to debate the issue on my posts but these two things - very different and with wider implications than politics - interest me. I didn't do a post yesterday. Friends came in the afternoon, it was my carer's day off (only once each month), I like to watch Le Tour round up and also Antiques Road Show and by the time I came to putting fingers on the keys of my laptop my fingers were everywhere but where they should be and my brain was addled. So I gave up and left it until this morning. Now I have done today's Mind Games in The Times, walked round the block on a warm, sunny Monday morning, my lunch is waiting in the microwave so here goes. Please don't criticise me for being political with a small p - and do join in to the discussion because both questions (very different both in content and importance) really interest me.
Firstly the Matt Hancock affair (in both senses of the word). I am thinking of the wife and children - I presume there are children, I think I read of them somewhere. If there are, the surely the wise and loving parent does his or her level best to make the whole thing as smooth and easy as possible for the children. To have the Dad you adore and who is half the centre of your life suddenly splashed all over the tabloids in pictures which leave little to the imagination is going to take some getting over whatever the outcome. Am I old fashioned? Don't these things matter any more? If you are in a position of huge responsibility don't you owe it to both yourself, your family and everyone else to conduct yourself in a better way than this whatever you do and however you behave in private?
And the other thing concerns a Politician I greatly admire who shall be nameless. The reason I admire her is that she often appears on Breakfast television early in the morning (I always watch for my day's news before my carer comes). When she is asked a straight question she always manages to give a straight answer - sometimes a 'Yes'or 'No' - she never goes 'all round the houses and deliberately avoids giving an answer.' A few days ago she was on the programme and in the space of five minutes she made the same, glaring grammatical error half a dozen times. As a long-time teacher of English each time it hit me hard. Should it have made any difference? I rather think we have maybe got so used to these 'boys from Eton' that any slip up is easily noticed. I thought back to Aneurin Bevan and Ernie Bevin, both from very working class backgrounds who had absolutely no airs and graces, both absolute heroes of my Father. Why should I be influenced by that. If it came to a General Election and she was standing in my Constituency would it make any difference to how I voted? I sincerely hope not but subliminally these days I have a horrible feeling we all aspire to be middle class, nhs or not.
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34 comments:
I am also a retired teacher of English (to differentiate from those teachers who were born in England), and find my sources of irritation in radio presenters. When they indulge in subject-verb disagreement, misplaced modifiers, or sentence fragments I find myself leaning toward violence. But worse than that is failure of enunciation. What does "pleece" mean? How can something be "impordunt" or worse yet, "impor-unt" (as far as I recall, the glottal stop does not take the place of the letter t in English). If your disgruntlement is limited to one politician, I envy you.
Well, although I am not a "boy from Eton" :) and am most definitely from working class stock, I am regularly appalled by the everyday, casual abuse of our English language. Perhaps it should not make a difference, but to me it does.
Slipshod grammar irritates me too. I can remember being shocked when my children were not taught English grammar at school and am saddened by the 'lazy' language used on TV. I don't want a return to 1930's BBC speech but correct English would be so nice.
As for Mr. Hancock I think it is a shame that he felt it necessary to resign, and that his private life should be just that. I have heard that a hidden camera caught him out and that to me shouts of dirty work on someone's part.
My degree is in English. Grammatical errors distract and disturb me. If people can't be bothered to speak and spell correctly, then why should I trust them to make good decisions? Re the politician in the news: if you are old fashioned, then I am, too. Such behavior demonstrates a lack of good character.
Love,
Janie
I dislike bad grammar.
As I am a teaching assistant in the top end of a primary school I feel very strongly that those who are in the public eye should speak grammatically correct English. How are we supposed to teach children grammar if they don't hear it. I can often be heard shouting at the television or radio when they mangle our wonderfully expressive language. As for the other matter I feel so sorry for the children (six in total, three in each family) their worlds have been turned upside down in the most public of ways.
Jane
I did GCE English in the sixties and our 'bible' was Fowler's Modern English Usage. So, yes I find myself mentally correcting the things I hear that sound wrong to me. Language, though, particularly spoken language is a living, dynamic entity: mid 20th century modern usage is not early 21st century modern usage, just as it was not 18th century or 11th century usage. I remember a government announcing that commas and full stops would be dropped from addresses to speed up the typing of official letters. i still can't bring myself to follow that rule, or to use 'text speak'. (Does anyone else mentally recite their address and the date before typing an e-mail? Or is it just me...)
Bad grammar is an indicator of laziness, especially irritating in those who govern us.
Matt Hancock is not a 'poor man'; as you say Pat, there was clearly no thought for his family, or that of Gina Coladangelo. However, his resignation is not a matter of his private life. Firstly, the Ministerial Code forbids such behaviour. Secondly, Mr Hancock as health secretary, was responsible for designing Covid restrictions for the electorate, which he then broke. Thirdly, Ms Coladangelo, a university friend of Mr Hancock, was appointed as a non-executive director at the Department of Health, and then as an advisor in the Department of Health.
12 months ago the 'Right Honourable' Boris Johnson described Mr Hancock as 'f***ing hopeless'...and we are back to questions of slipshod grammar, and political judgement.
I do feel sorry for the wife and particularly the children of any person that has his affair splashed all over the papers and the news. You would hope he would consider his family a little more.
Bad grammar and spelling do bother me however I admit as I get old my grammar is not what it used to be.
My husband's school, an early, somewhat experimental comprehensive in South London, did not teach grammar. At all. I'm still treated to the glottal stop daily but I consider that far preferable to the antics of some Oxbridge politicians.
I agree with you Pat - correct grammar does matter to me too. And correct pronunciation, but much of that comes down to early family training, and therefore only happens when the elders know, and use, English language correctly. My grandchildren have wonderfully wide vocabularies, and speak well, but currently I'm fighting "someTHINK" with both Miss3 and Mr6! Certainly their parents are not guilty of such slips, but I doubt school or preschool are correcting them.
As to politicians behaving badly ... it's more than just politicians too ... WHY is it that men in power think that when they "unzip it" they are automatically covered by a cloak of invisibility? I've seen it in business and church life too. Amazement when they get caught! No thought for the damage done to the children or abandoned partners. A member of my family, when charged by sis daughter with such behaviour, said "It was only wrong if she (the wife and mother) found out" !!! So it comes down to one's moral character.
Two people I admire greatly often make grammatical errors when in conversation. I can trust what they say which means far more to me than sentence construction. I would never throw stones as my own grammar has deteriorated over the years.
I find Mr. Hancock, Ms. Coladangelo, the person who released the image and the papers who published it all reprehensible.
I never taught in a school which did teach grammar in the way it was taught in my Beeschool days - same goes for handwriting and to some extent spelling
Beacee - I am horrified by text speak - it must rub off in school when children spell you u for example.
Thanks as always.
Hi Pat, I too feel for the spouse and children and wonder was the affair really worth it. Where is the respect for the person they married. It must be bad enough to face up to an unfaithful spouse without it being splashed all over the papers.
I do feel that correct grammar is becoming obsolete. Viv
Yes, I heard that Weave. It aggravated me too. I also feel for Matt Hancock's family, but there are plenty more like him around. Everything has changed, and not for the better.
It does seem that high profile people often think they are above reproach. I feel badly for their family. MH crossed the line, took the risk and now has sealed his fate.
When Australians born and bred here can't pronounce the name of their own country correctly, it drives me insane...Astraya, Orstraiw-ya...how hard can it be. Then we go to the other extreme with the officious words of the national anthem...'our home is girt by sea'??
As for politicians behaving badly regarding inappropriate sexual behaviour, liaisons and even a recent alleged rape incident , Australian Federal politics has quite the record, investigations and outcomes continuing at the moment. Our deputy Prime Minister from the National Party was sworn in again recently, after leaving Parliament due to an affair with a member of staff, which would have hurt his family terribly as all was made very public. At the swearing in his now 'new family', were there..now wife andtwo little pre-schoolers, but no sign of his other children., in what would have previously been a proud moment for them. I guess it is none of our business really, but when politicians are supposed to set an example, and they are voted in, in good faith, it is arrogant, hurtful and reckless behaviour which is entirely selfish. Pam, S.Aust.
I sometimes feel very out of step with the world around me. I think that there are things that matter a great deal. In my mind, fidelity is one of those things. To me, once you cross that line, it can never be un-crossed. I have a good husband. He is not perfect, but I realize that no one IS perfect. My eye does not wander, because I know that in the long run, I will just find another imperfect person. The other thing is that he came to me at a very tough time in my life, and stepped right up to the plate without a second thought. He helped me raise three children. I would never humiliate him by doing something so low.
As far as language? We have just come off a 4 year presidency with man who was a babbling idiot. He was not an honorable person. I could have forgiven the grammar. I cannot forgive the lack of honor.
...just adding that Barnaby Joyce has a partner, not wife, in this story, my mistake, and that he ousted the former Nationals leader Michael McCormick in a leadership spill McCormick was no doubt a man on principals, and we now have to put up with Joyce's arrogant triumphant posturing, with no shame attached to his behaviours. Many not happy. Pam/
Bad grammar is apalling.
There are many 'liberals' around who promote both the creative use of English, and freedom within marriage. These people are wrong; full stop.
If it was purely a case of Mr. Hancock have an illicit affair, well that wouldn't have bothered me, or necessitated him resigning in my opinion, married adults do have affairs and have done so since the year dot, some marriages get boring.
However, when you are doing the exact opposite to what you insist that the nation do in respect of Covid rules, it becomes a serious matter and the PM should of immediately sacked him.
As for picking holes in peoples grammar, well there's a lot more important issues in life to get stressed about and you'll probably find that those at fault feel the same way.
English not being my native language, I take pride in speaking and writing it as correctly as I can, with (hopefully) few mistakes. Proper grammar and spelling can make a big difference, and using both sloppily can lead to misunderstandings.
When I was taught English at school, our teacher had an Oxford education, and to this day I think I could not have had a better teacher. My Yorkshire husband was an English teacher, too, so he made sure I knew when I made a mistake!
As my school days were decades ago, I now base my learning and refining on what I read in books and papers and what I hear on TV and radio. When they make grammatical or other errors, I can often tell, but not always.
As someone has said 6 children are also involved in this 'affair' and they will suffer the repercussions of a feeding frenzy of news. Personally I would put the editors of many a newspaper in prison, alongside the politicians of course.
As for grammar, it is very middle class to ask of people to write correctly, if and when someone writes a very poignant essay and spelling and grammar leave a lot to be desired, would you smear their words with red ink?
Despite all the concerns about fairness within society the rights of children are somewhat lagging behind. One small but telling indication of this is that, in a world where we have to be very careful about what we call people of different ethnicities and sexual orientation, it is still quite acceptable for learned and powerful people to refer to children as "kids".
The language is of course constantly changing, but it is extremely irritating to hear people getting away with saying things which we were always told were wrong. Let me guess, was the offending MP "sat" in the studio or "stood" outside the Houses of Parliament?
Debby makes 2 very good points...
I suspect Matt Hancock's is in poor mental health at the moment because of unrelenting pressure and burnout. When he starts to recover he'll regret it. It doesn't make him any less hopeless, but it could happen to any of us.
I can sneer at incorrect spelling and grammar, but I also think grammar has to change and evolve. What was correct grammar and spelling in the nineteenth century is incorrect now, so its not a fixed form but changes and adapts. Some grammar rules become obselete as do spellings. Grammar needs to be of use to describe, analyse and communicate in today's world, not yesterdays. So mixed feelings on this one .J.P.
No John but something similar - wrote instead of written.
No Thelma I wouldn't but neither would I expect them to be my MP - and I may well be wrong - harking back to the old Labour days and the MP's I mentionejd - they were magic and got things done. I know I am in the wrong really.
Librarian - I admire your command of the English language!
It is happening everywhere it seems
Derek - Well said
Another occasion when I wish we were having a drink in a lovely setting and all able to discuss this freely together. Thanks for joining in.
Thelma apologies for that j - can't get it to go away!
debbie in essex
My pet peeve, almost unique.
WHAT a person says is often more telling than how they say it. Then again, if they don't say it correctly, their message can be lost in the telling. I guess it all depends on who is talking and who is listening...
Love that 'almost unique'
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