We must most of us have asked this question at some point in our childhood. I am not thinking of the priviledged classes here but the good old Working Class - and there were a lot more of them in those days I guess, when "Social Climbing" had not been heard of.
My Dad was born in 1889. The school leaving age became 12 in 1899 and when I think of what a well-read man he was and how he was always looking at the Atlas when countries were mentioned on the News, how he had a shelf full of Poetry and Travel books - many of the poems he knew off by heart, many of the places he was interested in he was knowledgeable about. And his knowledge of Natural History - wild flowers, birds, gardening, naming varieties of Tomato, Apple, Rose - he was a mine of information. If I wanted to know about anything it was always, "Ask your Dad" and if he couldn't answer my question the answer would not be "I don't know" it would be "Let's look it up." He had passed the Scholarship at 11 but his future was already mapped out and sadly his parents couldn't afford to keep him at school. No State help in those days - certainly not for the working class.
Sadly he didn't live long enough to see me as a mature student get my first University Degree but my goodness me he certainly left me with a thirst for knowledge (much of it pretty useless these days when you can look up virtually everything at the touch of a button.)
But what of today's teenagers - within say the next ten years likely to become Mums and Dads? In my 'after lunch compulsory hour's rest' (made compulsory by me I hasten to add), while in a state of 'suspended animation' I watched four teenage boys and two teenage girls go past - not together - all individually. They had one thing in common. Can you guess what it was?
Every single one of them had their nose in their phone. If there had been a rock mid-footpath they would have fallen over it. I would also guess that not one of them would be looking up 'information'. I don't have a smart phone, just an old-fashioned phone, a push-button as my son calls it. I can't be bothered to learn the language. My phone can call folk, text folk, that's about it. It gets me by - I still have a dictionary and a thesaurus (both weigh a ton) and a lap top if I need to look something up. I get by.
When I watch University Challenge on TV I am lucky to get 5 right answers and almost always they are about wild flowers, native birds, the countryside. I can't help feeling that - like my passing teenagers today - the members of the quiz yeams never bothered looking at what they were walking/riding through. Never questioned what that patch of blue flowers was called, or that pretty colourful bird was.
Does it matter? Life has moved on - as it does with every generation. If you want to know anything now - press a button.
Do young folk talk amongst themselves still. Do they have meaningful discussions - or even ordinary conversations?
I listen to my 7 year old great grand daughter asking questions, chatting to mum and dad, learning about the world every day and already beginning to questions things, beginning to develop the art of arguing the point. There are still parents out there prepared to listen. But most families are families where both parents work (and have to spend much of the evening working one way or another).
Are we at the begining of a time when discussing, arguing the point, observing what is going on around us, talking about what we see in a meaningful way are all going to become things of the past. I sincerely hope not. I shalln't be here to see how things turn out. I read that some (Private and Public) schools are opting out of so called conventional exams and putting in their own. Maths and English stay but everything else seems to be under discussion. This might be a way forward. But if it is then please don't let it be a generation where 'traditional' subjects like woodwork, cookery, metalwork and the like are left out of the equation so that we breed another generation where there is almost a national shortage of tradesmen - bricklayers, electricians, plumbers, carpenters - things like this are still left out of things. This is what happened with the abolition of Secondary Modern Schools for Comprehensive. I was teaching when ROSLA came in. When suddenly a generation of pupils in their teens had to stay on an extra year at school. For what? You may well ask.
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27 comments:
With your father supplying information, or helping you to look it up, you would have developed the idea that older people had knowledge, or access to it, that younger people would grow into. That concept seems to be fading these days. I get rather fed up with young people who like to tell us that they have 'discovered' gardening, cult authors, craftwork and many other interests - they seem oblivious to the fact that older folk also have that knowledge, which was not reached at via a screen.
An excellent and thought provoking posting today Pat.
Like you, and apparently unlike the majority of the population, I also have a basic mobile phone, a Nokia. I can make and receive calls and texts on it, can't think of any reason why I need anything else.
I very much envy you for the father that you had. My father worked very hard but his off times were spent round the pub. He never had a bad side to him but he never became involved in family matters, my childhood was very unhappy and to this day a lot of it remains locked away and unachievable from memory.
Parents with the time and interest to talk, listen, read stories, sing, and interact with their children bestow enormous advantages, but so many don't have the time or energy for it. Work that was once done at a sensible considered is frantic and skimped. Mobile screens even commoditise and profit from our attention. Yet again, I'm with Derek on that. Why can't we see that we are being taken for mugs in so many ways.
It appears your father was a great inspiration to you. He would be proud of your accomplishments. Schools seem to be undergoing change and I hope for the better. The trades are definitely in short supply in the USA as well. There are changes in the work week as well. Many are working from home and there is talk about a 4 day work week. As you state, time spent together as a family enjoying each other and conversing is important. Children need to feel supported and nurtured. In 10 years, the world will look very different.
What an excellent post and you make some concern point, especially about the classes that taught practical working knowledge for feeding yourself and making a living. When I was in high school, the boys (yes, only the boys) got to work on cars, take carpentry, electrical, and metal working classes. I imagine the lawyers put an end to those. We girls were consigned to sewing and cooking classes, mandatory in grades 7 and 8, but optional in grades 9 thru 12.
When our sons were in those grades, sadly none of those classes were offered.
As for noses in phones, that is the saddest of all.
Hugs!
I remember the first time I saw a line of people looking at a phone in their hand. I was in Iowa City, Iowa sitting at a stop light and looked up at the student crosswalk. It felt very sci-fi at the time and now it is the norm. As always a thought-provoking post. Jackie
Pat, here are my thoughts. New devices are a part of life that cannot be ignored and commuication has moved to different levels and methods and like it or not it has happened and continues to happen. However, I agree it is important to be a good parent to not lose sight of conversation and wild play etc. without devices in hands. I am sure more than we think do this. On the train on the way home the teenagers returning to the sticks from 6th form college in the city had plenty of conversation and opinions during the journey even though they also had mobile devices at the same time. In fact they were so noisy and talking I wished they would shut up! So not all is bad.
THis was an excellent post, Pat. My grandaughters' screen time is very strictly limited. I actually think that is good. They are developing a curiousity about the world around them, and I got them a membership to a stem subscriptino. They receive a science kit every month.
Contrast this with my William. I love him dearly, but if we're going to be honest about it all, he's a kid who always has his nose pressed up to a screen of one sort or another. We are not his parents. We cannot control that now that he's spending the majority of his time at his parents' home. He really has no curiosity, just a drive to play his games. I don't think it is healthy.
You continually impress me with how intelligent and well-read you are Pat.
I'm curious,have you ever read a Christian bible?
If so,what did you think of it?-Mary
Re discussion - I see in today's news an item about Generation Z coming out of school unable to accept that there can be more than one point of view or opinion, and are unable to fit into a workplace where there may be any dissent. Their attitude seems to default to "cancel" anyone who may disagree with them, this surely cannot be a healthy development?
We live in worrying times and I often wonder where they will lead. Do schools prepare the less able pupils for life after school or are they only interested in pupils who want to go to University? It is a great pity that apprenticeships are so expensive. There must be many youngsters who would benefit from one, and society would benefit too if there were more plumbers, carpenters, and other 'crafts'.
Will - for many years teachers were trained to teach AT mot WITH - old habits die hard. Discussion is so vital in class - but it is not easy and takes a skill that I suspect many teachers may not have mastered.
Mary - having been brought up as a Methodist I lost my faith many years ago and for the past forty years or so have been a member of The Humanist Society.
Rachel - Good to hear all is not lost. Of course when I think about it I should not make snap judgements about what I only view through my sitting room window. I sincerely hope you are right and that all is not lost - I suppose every generation has had similar thoughts.
Rachel alone sees some good things about the young today - experiences it first hand on train journeys - that is so good to hear. Certainly more hopeful a view than mine through a sitting room window.
Thank you once again for a splendid lot of food for thought.
My grandparents were born in the early 1900s, a bit younger than your father. All of my grandparents worked. My father, a high school graduate, was a passionate reader and gardener. He seemed to know a lot about the subjects that were of interest to him. The activity of asking those in the family for answers on various and sundry seems to have taken a backseat to 'googling' it.
You were fortunate with your Dad .
My experience was more like Derek's, but instead of the pub, my Dad's escape from family was his (to us, unwelcoming) hoarder's shed.
Rather than ever answer 'I don't know' to a question, he would give such a ridiculous pontificating answer that made no sense. We gave up.
I think we gave up when we had to comply with a strap at the dining table to keep quiet and well-behaved - his working class answer to everything. Discussions unfortunately were reduced down to drivel, so your description is very much a warm and loving contrast...and there is respect there too. I married into a lively family of 'discussers' and love it.
Keep up your lovely stories Pat and shining positivity. You are a fine example of a beacon that attracts.xx - Pam
My kids called my Dad (their Grandpa) "the smartest man in the world". Whenever they were stumped by a homework problem, we would always call Grandpa and he would always know the answer. It was sad when my Dad got Alzheimer's and all that was lost. But we still have wonderful memories of how smart he was and how he was always so happy to share it!
I think as a society we miss out on harnessing the Knowledge accumulated by the older generation. If you check how supposedly primitive tribes make the young children sit with the old men and women who can no longer perform manual labor but will pass on the knowledge that they have accumulated through a lifetime of learning from their mistakes. It is a sin that all of this knowledge is allowed to die with the aged when so much is still relevant in building well rounded human beings.
One thing that bothers me is that with so much information the young people have lost the ability to pick out what is valid information.
I don't know, Pat. I simply tell myself, they all be in this together.
Fascinating post!
I had interested and interesting parents who were a mine of information, and encouraged us children to read books, love the dictionary and use the reference section at the library to research anything. Yet how often were we told to “get your nose out of that book!” while at the table, in the loo, in bed way past lights out time or if we had company?
However, the beauty of phones and tablets is that they are used for so many things including book reading, puzzles, dictionary, encyclopaedia, etc, as well as for communication, and are so portable compared to our old resources. So I wonder if the phone, or any other device, is really just the new book. I certainly believe the modern libraries think so with their diminishing shelves and increasing technology.
As for the youth of today, they definitely do communicate. As I scribbled in my notebook (on the “purple prose” page on my ipad!) on the bus home, “The bus is filled with school children, its usual serenity filled with constant babble punctuated by infectious laughter and ear splitting shrieks. The air is redolent with the sweet, slightly nauseating, odour of jawbreakers and chocolate and the odd whiff of the cheese straws that are being proudly transported homewards in brightly coloured tins.”
Finally, I proudly admit that I, me, on my own, managed to replace the element in my top oven with only the help of YouTube.
I will always love books (and not just to sniff them) but I have to confess.
My name is Judi and I am a modern digital device addict.
Signed - Judi, aged sixty twelve.
Judi -what a delight to read your response - and how cheering for the future.
Red - good point.
Please everyone read all the comments - your answers are fascinating. Thank you for thinking about things and contributing to the ddiscussion.
I was in my local recently when 5 young people came in together. They ordered their drinks, sat down, then proceeded to consult their phones; hardly saying a word to each other.
We mustn't jump to conclusions though, must we? There's a very young mum who lives near me and I met her recently returning from the railway station. She had just taken her two boys, aged about 5 and 3 to London for the day. They'd been visiting the Natural History Museum and HMS Belfast, places she'd only found out about online.
I can confirm what Rachel says; most days I use public transport or am out and about on foot, seeing people of all ages talk together - or not. There seems to be hardly a difference in age when it comes to using mobile devices; I observe just as many elderly ladies tapping away at their phones as I see teenagers showing each other some video clip or other on their phones.
Your Dad was as important to you as my Dad was to me, Pat. We were lucky in having wonderful fathers who taught us a lot and encouraged us to find out what we didn‘t know.
I am always quite surprised about how knowledgeable some young people are in certain areas. I don't think you can keep any kid down who wants to learn, and there have always been lots that don't.
Truth! I laugh over the young ones do seriously "teaching" how to can food, harvest wild foods, live simply, etc, etc. So often what they are teaching are things I did in the 70s, and my English granny did 50 years before that!
Times move on, and sometimes it's a struggle to keep up. In some areas, I have chosen to fall behind, i.e. electric kitchen gadgetry. With phones, though, I use mine all the time, for taking photos, writing my blog, listing on ebay, looking up recipes, keeping in touch with friends.
However, I do see the downside, as people in airports and other public places choose to look at their phones rather than interact with others. And yet, didn't people do the same with books and newspapers, in the days before phones?
I took out our TV years ago, and since back then phone service was not available, my grandchildren were at a loss as to what to do at Granny's. I did not let them on my computer as back then it was too easy to crash it! But they soon came to enjoy being here, and would bring friends to our house and tell them its cool here, they don't have TV.
I had books by the hundreds, puppets, crafts, and we always cooked together. Good memories
Today my grandchildren are great talkers, and when visiting the conversations are lovely and long. No phones are allowed at the table, one thing I do insist on. I have watched my grands grow up to be articulate and interesting, even though their phones seem to be an extension of their arms!
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