Thursday 30 May 2024

Eva Petulengro

 I see in the Times Obits today that Eva Petulengro has died, aged 85.   As this is 6 years younger than me then the figure who I heard of regularly during my childhood was obviously her mother - also Eva Petulengro - quite a well-known figure in the 'old days'.

The family had a history  of being Clairvoyants and reading through the Obituary today made me think about the 'old days'.

My father always assured us all that my Mother had Romany blood -she always played it down although never actually denying it.   I am not suggesting they were related to one another but it is interesting to read that Romany families were frequently found in the Lincolnshire Fens, which is where my mother came from.   As a young woman, looking at photographs that I have of her, there is no doubt she was a very beautiful young woman.   Also she was black-haired as are most Romanies.

My Dad spoke often of visiting her Grandfather, who lived on Bardney Common in a Caravan and who my father insisted kept his Sunday Joint in an enamel bucket under the van with a sod of grass for a bucket-lid!

I don't know - and I suppose never will know - the truth of the matter and to me it doesn't really matter in the slightest.   All I do know is that Mother wished me to be called Rebecca, but considering the political 'climate' in the World at the time (1932) and the association of the name in both Jewish and Romany communities my parents decided against it and called me Patricia Ellen instead.

Now, as Romany and Traveller communities are trekking through Wensleydale this week on their way to the Appleby Horse Fair which begins next week-end (and holding up traffic a bit), and now today reading of the death of Eva Petulengro, I recalled the old days, when country folk (as we were) did rather believe in such things; how she grew up in a traditional Vardo having a Romany mother and a gorger (non-Romany) father and how her father embraced the traditional life of the Romanies;  how the family always travelled in a convoy of three wagons, each drawn by black and white cob horses, the wagons painted red and gold; it does make me wonder.   My mother's favourite novel, throughout her life, was a book called "Red Wagon" (I believe by Lady Eleanor Smith).

The obit speaks of their food being wild mushrooms and illegally bagged pheasant and partridge (and hotchi - hedgehogs - baked in clay (ugh!) and tells of male members of the family carving clothes pegs from lengths of willow and the woman tying them in bundles and selling them in the villages of the Lincolnshire and East Anglian Fens.  (these were always the pegs of my childhood)

And one final note about how Dads toughened up their kids to suffer what were definitely the 'slings and arrows of outrageous fortune' in those days:

Her Dad would encourage her to jump from the steps of the caravan into his arms and then at the last minute step out of the way so that she fell on her face in the mud.  (Can't imagine any child not being wise to that after trying it once).

35 comments:

Librarian said...

A longer gap than usual between this one and your previous post; I was getting a little worried and am now all the more pleased to find you writing today.

Many people believe in clairvoyants, mediums and all sorts of things such as curses and spells and the "bad eye". If I am not mistaken, there are several TV series (claiming to be documentaires) starring mediums who help people whose homes are haunted or who want to get in touch with their beloved dead.
My ex-mother-in-law from Sicily was often asked for help when someone was suffering a bad headache that didn't want to go away; people believed it was caused by the "bad eye" (malocchio) and she performed a ritual to dispel it, involving a bowl of water, a red ribbon and the sign of the cross.

DUTA said...

Where I come from (Romania), these people are called Roma.

Anonymous said...

I was hanging on every word here Pat. Fascinating info about your family and the various locations. I think I have told you that my biological father was a married man when my mother had an affair with him so half of my past/DNA is unknown other than hearsay. As for the topic of clairvoyants/ mediums etc., when I was very young, my mother read "coffee grounds" after a person drank from the cup and my step father could read palms. As they both became more religious as members of the southern baptist organization they refused to do readings. I can remember being very disappointed as I was only getting old enough to have an interest in such things. I am looking forward to the comments to this post. - Jackie

gz said...

You have solved a question I had been wondering about..there were two generations of Eva.
Interesting history of the Roma in the Fens. Pirate's maternal family were Epps, apparently Roma from the Low Countries, in the 15 or 1600s.
He had premonitions.. usually correct.

It is sad how beautiful names aren't used because of various connections...but Patricia Ellen is a pretty combination.

Sue in Suffolk said...

Good to see your post.
I'm sure I remember a member of the Petulengro family having a fortune tellers hut on the beach in Felixstowe way back in the 60's.
My Mum believed that gypsies, as they were known back then, really could read palms and tell fortunes, they always called at our house when I was young and Mum would find clothes for them and buy their lace, pegs or paper flowers.

Barbara Anne said...

Another wonderfully interesting post from you, Pat, and I thank you for this glimpse of people and events from decades ago.

Elated to see your post, too!

Hugs!

Tracy said...

I remember women going door to door selling pegs and lucky heather. One spat curses at my mother when she said (politely) that she didn't want to buy anything. Mum responded by running her out of our garden with a broom held aloft and shouting curses of her own, adding "Yours won't have any effect on me because I don't believe in them!"

Heather said...

My grandmother was a country woman and had great respect for true Romanies. I remember them calling at the house with clothes pegs, ribbons, lucky heather and such, in my childhood. How they managed to bring up a (sometimes) large family in such a small space is amazing, but having had a peep inside one or two vardos as they passed on the road, the insides were always sparkling clean. Thank you for another fascinating post.

Tasker Dunham said...

Good to see your post. My mother also called them Gypsies and would lock the door and pretend to be out if she saw them coming along the street with their pegs and heather. The story was that they had correctly predicted a large number of deaths in the family and she thought they were the cause.

John Going Gently said...

Lovely post
And great you are still here and not kicked the bucket just yet
Xx

the veg artist said...

I remember well the elderly lady who walked the lanes and down long farm tracks with pegs and lucky heather. Her name was famous/infamous in our area, with lots of her extended family still around. I was terrified of her and went running to get my grandmother who usually gave her something.

anonymous said...

What a treat to see a new post from you,! I think you have a lovely name.A friend of mine named
Rebecca always was called Becca , that just don't have a nice sound to it . Interesting topics you covered today, thanks,Mary

Ellen D. said...

You have so many interesting memories to share with us, Pat. I enjoyed hearing about your parents. How did they meet? I was please to see your middle name! I was named Ellen after my grandmother! Hope all is well and you are enjoying your garden.

SueJay said...

I can remember travelling people calling on us when I was a child. My mother was always polite but seldom bought anything, although I do have some of their clothes pegs in the bottom of my peg basket. Two pieces of whittled wood, joined at the top with a strip of tin. They used to sell sprays of wax flowers moulded on twigs which fascinated me. Good to see a post from you.

Jacque F said...

So delighted with your post, Pat. Absolutely fascinating, as were other readers' memories of "the old days." Speaking of old-fashioned names, I learned yesterday that a former student of mine named her new baby girl Dorothy Josephine--"Dottie Jo" for short--in honor of two great-grandmothers. Isn't that just the most beautiful name?

16 blessings'mom said...

I was glad to see you are still posting, and I totally enjoyed hearing about the old days. I'm not so very old yet, but I do remember the knife sharpening man coming door to door, and my parents always giving him business, in our neighborhood in Central New York State. I think Patricia Ellen is lovely, by the way.
Della

Susan said...

Patricia Ellen is a lovely name. History often tells us a bit about our parents and their beginnings/roots. I did not know about fortune telling being a gypsy practice. I am aware of Travelers in Europe where my husband's relatives used to talk about them taking over open land to set up a community only to be asked to move on. I assumed Travelers are gypsies that prefer the nomad life. Is the term Traveler generally used to identify all gypsies?

Barbara Rogers said...

Welcome back...it's always great to hear from you again, and this post was full of great things - but most have already been commented upon. I love Romas, the Vardo wagons, and the history of people that was never written down. So hearing about any connections does make their history come alive. Knowing future events may happen, I'm not one to say. I did learn how to read palms once, and do read Tarot cards every once in a while. Thanks so much for these remembrances!

Cro Magnon said...

She was a well known figure here in Brighton. She had a 'fortune-telling' booth on the sea front for decades. I'm sorry to hear that she's died.

Heather said...

Good to read your post and what an interesting one. My husband's Gran always had her fortune told during Bridgwater Fair. As I child I remember the Romanies/gypsies used to stay on the outskirts of our village on their circuit of work. My husband's 2 x great aunt married into the Orchard family, quite a large family group that used travel around the South West area. She was of course a gorger and Edward a true Romany, later they became house dwellers. Studying the various census, there were some interesting names, Defiance, Priscilla and Myalla. The census had dwellings, a gypsy caravan/tent and male occupations eg. licenced van hawker. My father in law is friendly with a lady who has fought for gypsy rights to own land to park their own vans.

thelma said...

Lovely to see you back Pat with your tales of gypsies and the annual coming together at Appleby. In our part of North Yorkshire there was a gypsy family who would camp by the side of the road and tether their four ponies on the verge, the two boys would sleep in a tent and the dog had a makeshift kennel. They never stopped long in one place and once we drove by them outside Helmsley which was quite a way from our village.

Tom Stephenson said...

I am glad that we still have Romany travellers in horse-drawn wagons. A few years ago, a Romany horse was tethered overnight in my next door field - I could see the signs, but they cane and went without me seeing them. I think they were on their way to the Priddy Fair in the Mendips. A friend on mine bought her first horse there. She now has 12 Shires!

Sue said...

If she had a few spare pennies my Mum would buy a little sprig of 'lucky heather' from the visiting gypsies during my Manchester childhood. I expect our main road will be slow at times over this next week then, as lots of the Romanies travel along the A6 singly or in small convoys on their way to the Appleby Fair. Thanks for the reminder. There are often horses tied alongside laybys over night while the people sleep in the traditional wagons. It's nice to see the beautiful old wagons, but not so good to be stuck behind a long queue of traffic for ages.

shyleigh said...

You have had such an interesting life and tell your stories in such a great way! Thank you for sharing!

Anonymous said...

A magical post! TY, Weaver.

Traveller said...

What an interesting post. I had to Google Vardo as I had not come across the word. Had I continued reading I would have worked out what it was from your post but my fingers jumped to the Google engine as soon as I saw the unfamiliar word. One reason I now prefer to read “e-books” - if connected to the web you can highlight the word and look it up, so much easier than reaching for the dictionary.

On the subject of words, sorry Weaver I am hijacking your post here but I know you are also a lover of words, I recently acquired a copy of “Word Perfect” by Susie Dent - she of Countdown fame. A word for each day with funny stories and etymologies. My favourite so far is the verb to testiculate….. will come back with the definition after you have had time to consider.

Virginia said...

I'm so pleased to hear from you again Patricia Ellen, and learn something of the oral history of your family. There are many stories in my family that I suspect are apocryphal, relating to their arrival from Ireland and the UK, and their adventures on the way. One has a great grandmother signing on to a ship and the family being too late to "retrieve" her, so had to send someone to Sydney to recover the girl. Of course she ended up married to him!
Enjoy your balmy summer days. XX

Marianne said...

Still traveling in the English countryside which is just beautiful. The color green just glows in the grasses and has such txture in the wide variety of huge trees. Interesting story

Anonymous said...

Like Virginia, we have stories in our family with a UK/Australia connection and signing on to a ship.
On my mother's side the story goes in the 1800's a boy around 10 arrived in a ship to South Australia from England, with a married couple as his guardians on the trip. He was searching for his English father here in South Australia. I have the shipping passenger list to confirm that story.
Once found, the story continues... his father wanted nothing to do with him, as his birth was the result of a liason with a Roma woman while living in England, a traveller I think around the areas you mentioned. The rejecting father, my ancestor, had since married here and established a family. The lad (my great great grandfather) grew up to marry into the German settlers community in country Sth. Australia.
He, his father and his sons were all fine horsemen evidently, living in reasonable proximity in those days. All can be confirmed but the sticking point. There are no records of the Roma ancestor. We know nothing of her other than we think her name was Mary Brewer.- Pam.

The Weaver of Grass said...

Traveller - just can't imagine what it means - sounds faintly rude!!

Thank you all for adding all the interesting bits of information. I will try to post still. The trouble is that after about 11am I am too tired and make so many mistake that it is frustrating/

Anonymous said...

Hi Pat, I am back again because I have just read John's post today and I mentioned you. I thought I would let you know what I have said to John : "Dear John, I rarely cry and, when I do, it is always when I am alone. I thank you and Pat (Weaver of Grass blog) for reaching me in a very special way with your words. You both have such a special gift. One of the best things about the internet is meeting friends like the two of you. Thank you. - Jackie (the one in Georgia USA)"

Traveller said...

Weave…it means talking “rubbish” whilst waving your arms around. Love the word.

Post when you are able. Your posts, and the comments they generate, are always interesting. I love the fact that you are prepared to tackle some thorny subjects and let people disagree with you and each other. It bothers me that much social media is now an echo chamber. The algorithms of platforms like Twitter push more product that echos the beliefs.

Terra said...

Oh Weaver, this post fascinates me; all the bits of recent history, Romanies, your own family connection to the romantic/hard life in the caravans pulled by the handsome white and black horses. Thanks for sharing this.

The Weaver of Grass said...

Thanks everyone. Traveller - intresting comment. I suppose what a blogger writes depends on the sort of person they are and why they write their posts. I am only too happy for folk to disgree with me - especially if they give a valid reason. I have always said that for me a successful post is one which makes me wish we could all be together in one place, with a drink in our hands and a couple of hours to spare so that we could have a discussion.

Victoria - names come and go don't they? I have recently heard of babies called Ada, Eva and Nell - all names which were common in the village where I grew up in the thirties. And yes, I agree if we don't like a person then their names certainly doen't feature on our list of favourite names.

Thanks for setting us thinking on what looks like being a wet day.

hart said...

Interesting family stories. Thank you for sharing them.