Well, well I have done it again! Stirring the pot is so good for my ageing mind - so thank-you to all those who contributed to my yesterday's post. Here is a follow-up after a great deal of thought.
First of all I have had "disagreements" with Derek over the years and he knows he can say what he feels without fear of offending me. He has said more or less what I expected him to say.
All this "free love" seems to hav e arrived in what is now called "the swinging sixties" along with the advent of the pill and therefore a degree of liberation from the fear (for girls of course) of quite a lot of babies growing up thinking their grannies were their mothers (sitting here I can think of half a dozen in my village).
I predate all that - I married in 1952 and my son was born when I chose to try for a child - 1958. It is a choice for everyone - nobody is under any obligation to anyone else - or to put it bluntly using Caitlin Moran's language - every girl's morals and how she treats her vagina are her choice and hers alone. But a serious point I was making is that here in the little town where I live many of the children seem to be living with step dads and step-step dads and whether or not that is ideal is open to debate - and I speak here as a teacher.
And to put Derek straight (he often puts me straight don't you Derek?!) and to enlarge on the Caitlin Moran theme without going into the 'sex at the pop festival detail' there are more ways of enjoying sex without 'going the whole hog' and after having one happy marriage of 39 years I can vouch for that. My second marriage of 23 years - just as happy although totally different - was of course totally different - no fear of pregnancy at that age for a start.
There we are - got that off my chest.
Lovely Autumn day here = blue sky, no breeze. Time I went out and watered my tubs. We have a hosepipe ban here now so nothing for it to take Priscilla round the tubs. See you tomorrow. Enjoy your Sunday.
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19 comments:
A lovely post in response to the comments on the previous one and one that showed that I knew what I could say without risk of offending you, thank you Pat. As a 75 year old, still hoping to be able to equal both your longevity and depth of knowledge and experience one day, I have of course experimented with the various forms of sex without sex, as you amusingly put it, it means that you stay awake longer rather than falling asleep to soon!
Enjoy your warm and sunny day.
Eloquently put, Pat
Feminism for men in four words: women are people too.
Half the nonsensical hangups people have about reproduction go back to the days when women were regarded as possessions.
We often worry about the wrong things where sex is concerned. What people growing up have to learn is that sex creates very strong emotional bonds. As a result, toxic individuals can use it as a means of control (it's commonplace for people to refuse to leave people who make their lives hell).
As for people living with step parents and changing partners, better that than people living in hellish relationships they can't escape from. Of course it's not perfect - but then the mores of the 1940s weren't no bed of roses either.
Missed yesterday's post and the friendly badinage that goes back and forth between Derek, Pat and Rachel - I'm all for it; its honest and the mutual respect and affection shines through in my opinion.
I'd like to add my twopence worth to the chat about sex, virginity, promiscuity etc..
I spent my first 20 years in Ireland.
Contraception in all its forms was illegal.
It didn't stop sex before marriage, it just made pregnancy a heartbreaking reality for many girls who had to "take the boat" to England for the weekend ( with mum; dad must never know )
I came to England in 1970 and got myself on the Pill.
Sex and pregnancy should be two separate entities.
We can't control sex but we now have the means to control pregnancy.
Whether someone is a virgin or not when they marry is neither here nor there.
What matters is that each partner has full control over their reproductive organs. Rant over! X
I grew up in the sixties but missed all that in my small sheltered town. I am glad I did. My class of 65 is turning 75 this year. I have a full life and hope to get to 100. Much to be said for growing up the way I did and you. When I taught from 1994- 2013 and then subbed to 2017…the students tried to shock me to no avail. I don’t judge…I listen. Love your blog…
I'm keeping out of it.
Well said, Pat!
BTW, I turned 1 year old the year you were married!
Hugs!
All I can say is their should be a test of stability and common sense before they allow their children to have children. Some people should never be parents!!
Such a comfortable day today. Some cloud, a bit of sunshine and a lovely gentle breeze blowing through my flat. I got quite a few neglected chores done too, so will now have the rest of the day off. Happy watering!
I am glad (b. 1960) that I grew up in an enlightened home. I remember my mum (b. 1932) telling me the facts of life and explaining that although she was a virgin on her wedding night (1956, London wedding, they went to see South Pacific on their wedding evening - cannot think of anything more romantic!) ) she didn’t expect me to wait until I was married. Just as well as I am about to celebrate my 30th wedding anniversary on 10th September! I love tuning n to your blog Weave. My mum trained as a State Registered Nurse, worked as an Operating Theatre Sister until her first child in 1959 (my bro - now sadly dead), returned to work as an OTS in 1967 with her youngest child aged 18 months and OUT OF NAPPIES! and drive herself to work in a green Austin 40 with red leather seats. My dad taught her to drive but she bought her own car with ‘pin money’ from Patons. Fast forward to 1970 when she realised operating theatre hours were not conducive to bringing up three children and she answered the call of the government to train as a teacher. Four years later she graduated with a BEd with her main subject Sociology. Then she really did join the ranks of the liberated woman. She worked at Westminster Hospital as a Nurse Tutor and had the most amazing relationships with her students if the letters I found after her death in 2011 are anything to go by. I wrote her Obituary for the Guardian - she would’ve liked that. I miss her, I wasn’t a great daughter to her but I know she loved me and I was with her holding her hand the moment she died which also was my birthday. Sarah
It is sad that so many children are growing up in broken homes, but I am the daughter of a very violent man, and I don't think that growing up in a broken home could have been any rougher than growing up in that muddle.
Bottom line: we have so many children who are not being taken care of and it is heartbreaking. Right now, my country seems hell bent on making sure we have more of them.
I wish the world were easier on children.
Life is so different for this generation.
As well as the contraception/multiple partners issue, there's been a change in the deeper concern about relationship stability, as it's not as vital if the consequences of sex are less confrontational.
Such a high proportion experience parental break-up, and then having to establish a relationship with a "new parental figure", as well as spending most of their preschool life in daycare. How can they develop deep emotional bonds, and also truly know they are loved and will always have their needs met?
All very difficult.
Sex is a touchy topic and you stick handle around the topic very well.
Dear Pat, I wasn't able to comment on your August 27th post and I know everyone has already been there done that but to Derek F's comment; a point of view from a 68 year old American woman.
So not being risqué makes you "extremely square" and "extremely jealous" and then your condescending "tut tutt".
Your comment is pompous and presumptuous. You made it personal. You "rather gathered" a lot of information you have no knowledge of.
Why would a mature women be jealous of permiscuous teenagers sleeping around with every Tom, Dick and Harry! Ugh
That's nothing to brag about. I'm sure many women from the free and breezy 60"s and 70's have their regrets with the explosion of STD"s.
My GYN once said if it wasn't for HPV she'd be out of business.
Suddenly all that risqué behavior doesn't sound so hot and hip anymore.
Thank you Pat for letting us all sound off.
Best wishes always,
Elsie
It hs been a stormy couple of days here in blogland with such views from you all - but as you know I do love to stir up the waters when I can find a topic to get my teeth into. So thank you all for jining in.
I tried to get my son to alter his grammar in his lasst sentence but he says he prefers it like that.
I am 77 - just to give some idea of the time frame. When I was a teenager in Yorkshire, a neighbour of mine had an illegitimate baby. She and her mother were bringing it up together. Then - horror of horrors - she became pregnant again. She went into denial and tried to hide the fact. Next news, we heard that when the baby was due, she gave birth alone in the bathroom and tried to flush the baby down the toilet. Even today, I try to fathom the moral of this story. It certainly put me off sex before marriage!
It would do my head in to find out my grannie wasn't really my mother but my sister was.
Australians know of an entertainment family where the rock'nroll father always away on tour, was explained as the brother,rather than father, to his child being bought up by the gran. It took a good deal of counselling when this young man found out the truth.
I feel for people on genealogy programs where they have to search out the truth which should never be denied a child. Surely young people, at disclosure, must feel 'taken for a ride'.
My cousin, adopted, searched out her birth family, and wished she hadn't. It all gets messy.
Generations back it happened in my family connections (great great aunt and her daughter with the grannie as Mum) - now there is no need for those lies that tangle people's emotions and make the child the last to know the truths owed to them.
-Pam, Aust.
To Anonymous Elsie I would comment as follows:-
you said "all of a sudden that risque behavior doesn't sound so hot and hip anymore" - to me it sounds as enviable as it always did and given the chance I'd be an eighteen year old back in the mid-60's all over again, for a whole raft of reasons that this current age cannot equal.
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