The answer, if you see any, is to either dig it up with a special fork (a ragfork - readily available)
or to spray it with a good weedkiller.
Remember that every plant you spray means about a thousand less next year as you are, of course, killing the seeds and it is an annual. Around here, because we are so near to fields, it easily floats into our gardens and we have to be vigilant. But make no mistake - it is a killer. Please help by
keeping a watchful eye.
Oh, and by the way - bees love ragwort but ragwort honey is very bitter. So, if you are a bee keeper that is another reason for destroying it.
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39 comments:
Was your dear friend W unaware of the danger?
Be careful with sprays. Read the instructions carefully. I didn't and was sick yesterday. The large black wasp(?) that tried to attack me is dead. Today, no breakfast. Just a glass of whisky.
Nasty stuff, specially in hay, Col used to walk the fields before he cut just in case.
Once upon a time the councils actually used this in mixed wild flower seed when sowing beside new roads because "it gave colour".
I put my gloves on and pulled one bit I noticed appearing down the meadow just a week or two ago.
Please don't use weedkillers because Ragwort are food to the Cinnabar moth caterpillars
A timely warning Weave. Animals are unlikely to touch it when green, but when dried in hay they will.
Gill x
Over 50% of the horse paddocks/grazing meadows on Sheppey have ragwort growing in them every year and clearly most if nor all, of the horse owners must be aware of the problem and yet none appear to remove the stuff. It appears to be only a danger when fed in it's dried form in hay and it's surely a matter of bringing in hay guaranteed to be ragwort free. Given the amount of ragwort growing on Sheppey and the amount of equine stock and the fact that I have heard of no deaths from poisoning, I do wonder at times if the danger is over stated.
Year ago I'm sure this used to be a notifiable weed. I remember having to tell the council it was in a local field. We lived in the New Forest where there are kits of ponies and donkeys.
PS Should say lots of ponies etc!!
As a non-expert, I used to get very agitated when I saw ragwort but after being reassured that it's only when dried out it becomes dangerous to horses I relaxed and now love to see it - and the cinnabar caterpillars too. I've not heard about it possibly causing problems for humans before but will look into that.
I always pull Ragwort on our fields and bury it. I wear gloves because our skin is not waterproof and I have read its toxins can pass through the skin. A lot of weedkillers are said to be carcinogenic and wonder how its allowed to be used on crops for human or animal consumption. The councils are supposed to adhere to the noxious weed act and so are we. Good post.
It really is a horrid weed. The worst infestations of it round here seem to be on Council verges too . . . A friend lost a horse to Ragwort poisoning and it really is a horrid death.
Derek Falkener - Until a few years ago, I had horses all my life and the danger of Ragwort ingestion is NOT overstated at all - it is a cumulative poison. See those same horses in 15 years' time and you might see a different story. If they are gypsy cobs, NO WAY are their gypsy owners going to pull up Ragwort - they wouldn't know how deadly it is and wouldn't care since they don't keep their horses long - sell them on for a profit and they'd never know there was a health problem later.
Our pet rabbit died of ragwort poisoning, and with our current rabbits I have to be really careful where I place the hutch as they live ragwort.
Siebrie
A timely reminder to all those who own donkeys or horses.
In answer to Bovey Belle I can only say that the horse owners here on the Isle of Sheppey to which I refer are all private, non-gypsy owners. I can only refer to how it is round here, lots of ragwort in and out of horse enclosures and no reported deaths of horses in the local paper or on local facebook, etc. Perhaps the people round here have just been lucky.
My friend's donkeys ate the ragwort before they were passed on to her Rachel - it doesn't happen overnight.
Anonymous - I do know about the cinnabar moth and that of course is another matter - and there is a dichotomy. Some of my naturalist friends take your view too. Perhaps Derek has a point - maybe more research is called for.
Well I seem to have stirred up a bit of a hornet's nest - we must read up on it, talk about it with folk in the know and draw our own conclusions.
But many thanks for all your contributions and special thanks to Anonymous for pointing out the connection with the Cinnabar moth - I forgot to mention that.
Ragwort hysteria is a far bigger problem than the plant. Common Ragwort (Senecio jacobaea) is a native species. Horses will not eat living ragwort unless starved. A large proportion of equine liver casualties have no definite diagnosis. The demonisation of ragwort tends to lead to other causes of equine liver failure being overlooked and more horses suffering. When dried in hay or suchlike, ragwort loses its bitterness and becomes palatable, although the amount of ragwort that a horse would have to ingest to suffer harm could only happen with a criminally neglectful owner. It is a criminal offence to sell contaminated feed and also an offence for a horse owner to fail to provide a a suitable diet. There is no such thing as a 'notifiable weed', nor has there ever been. The idea that pyrrolizidine alkaloids can be absorbed through the skin (in any significant amount) is a silly urban myth.
My apologies, my 'ragwort hysteria' comment appeared as 'Unknown said' - not intended to be anonymous.
Why have an Unknown blog identity? Do you appear on several blogs making comments as Unknown?
Ragwort is also really bad for cattle and cows - it gets into their eyes when they are grazing, and causes tremendous problems. And to 'Unknown', it certainly was supposed to be notified to the authorities in our council area of the UK.
I didn't know anything about it, but I do now. Thank you.
https://www.nfuonline.com/news/latest-news/ragwort-advice-on-control-and-disposal/
The link above might be helpful.
Once again I would say that the nature reserve that I have been involved with for 31 years, has a large quantities of Ragwort growing on it annually and cattle grazing across it for 9 months of the year and yet in all that time no cattle deaths attributed to ragwort poisoning have been reported.
The fact that both DEFRA and the NFU give guidance to ragwort disposal and the dangers of ragwort to livestock speaks for itself. It is bad husbandry to leave ragwort growing on fields, meadows and marshes where livestock graze and only aids the spread of the stuff.
It is all a matter of opinions Rachel and I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying. The reserve I'm involved with is owned by Natural England and neither they or the grazier that has his cattle on it, have seen fit to remove any of the ragwort up to now, possibly the reason why it is now so abundant there and possibly because of the failure for it to cause any livestock deaths. In a perfect world, such as many years ago, when farmers still cut thistles before they flowered and set seed and presumably controlled ragwort, what you suggest would take place but as farms have got bigger and finances tighter, physical ragwort control would now be time consuming, laborious and just not viable.
Fascinating the breadth of experience against/for ragwort on this subject and the 'need to be right' ;) But I have learned something, did it not come in on the railways, scattered along the trackway, or was it another plant?
Thelma, that was Oxford Ragwort, a near identical relative of Common Ragwort.
The common species is in the top 10 of nectar producing plants and is the sole food source for up to 77 insect species. Natural England also identify a further 117 other species that feed off of it while moving among other plants.
Natural England should be ashamed of themselves then.
Natural England have many failings.
Oh my goodness me! Where do I start with the wrong information in this posting and the comments?
First of all you CANNOT know someone who has lost animals to ragwort poisoning. There is no test
that can identify it for certain. If you know someone who says they are certain then the only way is if they poisoned the animals themselves, so report them :-)
It isn't the kidneys that are affected but the liver. The story about it being absorbed through the skin is just one of the many scary nonsensical stories being spread as part of a campaign.
Equine organisations and magazines have been pumping out reams of nonsense for years. For example, claiming that it is a serious problem in South Africa, when in fact the organisation that records plants has no record at all of the plant occurring there! Their work is reflected in the false perceptions of people posting here.
It is NOT an annual plant but a biennial plant and leaving plants does not create thousands more from the seeds. If it did we would all be knee deep in the plant. On average one plant produces just one new one. In reality it is slightly less because the available research shows it is decreasing.
It has never been a "notifiable plant" There never has been such a thing in UK law nor a requirement to report or notify the plant to anyone. That is just another of those scare stories.
There is no law that says that councils must control it.
It is NOT nearly identical to Oxford Ragwort. That is a much much smaller plant which grows on waste ground, cracks in pavements, walls etc. Its leaves are different. Its flowers are different. Its growth habit is different. It is very different and is now placed in a different botanical genus.
I'd be extremely surprised to see a pet rabbit being poisoned. Research shows that they can be fed more than their body weight and survive. The point about there being no reliable test also applies here.
Just because the NFU and Defra say something does not make it right. This is called "Argument from Authority" and it is one of the biggest errors you can make in science and logic. Only evidence makes things correct, not who says it! In fact Defra have messed up big time. They issued guidance based on a risk. They bungled this badly. They used figures which they said were confirmed. ( Of course there is no reliable test so they weren't!) I checked and they actually don't exist. They were just figures put about and claimed. They then used these figures in a manner which is just plain wrong. The maths was just wrong in a very very elementary manner. So Defra are just wrong on the plain and simple matter of risk. Their work is mathematically innumerate and obviously so.
Brilliant Neil, well written and very informative, it clarifies a lot.
And who is Neil Jones? One of your phone a friends Derek Faulkner? Neil Jones the oracle. Is his work in print, in Nature perhaps? In the meantime I'll go along with ragwort being toxic and I won't be leaving it in the meadow nor baling it in the hay.
Jesus Rachel, what goes on in your mind at times, no I'd never heard of the guy until he made that comment, does he have to be in nature or print to have a view on the subject, how long is it since you was involved in farming practices, pulled ragwort, or baled hay.
Oh goodness me - I am hiding under the parapet to avoid the flak here. I am now so
very muddled up that I no longer know what or where the whole argument is going. I first posted it because down the hill into our village becomes thicker with ragwort each year until it is now yellow with the stuff. My friend, still upset about her donkeys dying (and being diagnosed as dying of ragwort poisoning) suggested I do so.
Subject closed. Anyone wishing to get further information needs to go to a reliable source - opinions differ so much on this one that I no longer know who to trust.
If you want to be taken in by every Tom Dick or Harry that is up to you Derek. I prefer to know where comments come from and read something that someone has written, not those who hide behind Anonymous, Unknown and Names with no back-up. I am still involved in farming at every turn and we sold our farm 4 years ago. Farming good practice is in the blood, it never goes.
Subject closed, Pat said.
She didn't say I couldn't respond to you.
Dear Weaver of Grass.
I understand why you might be concerned that the conversation is getting heated but I do hope you allow comments to continue all the same. I'm following it with interest - as, no doubt, are others.
Ragwort / Oxford Ragwort / other kinds of ragwort. . .. whenever the word 'ragwort' is mentioned strong opinions emerge and many of us are simultaneously worried and confused. We want to do the right thing but don't know what the 'right thing' is. It may well be that clarity emerges through the discussion and this would be really helpful.
A few years ago I complained to what was then my local council (I have since moved) about the volume of Oxford Ragwort on the embankment of a railway line that had been turned into a public footpath. I was under the impression there was a campaign to eradicate it from the country. I was told the council had no resources for doing anything about it but if I would like to pull it out myself that would be helpful. I said I didn't think I could safely clamber around on its steep sides but if I did - what would I do with the uprooted, dried out plants? The man didn't know.
After that a similar discussion to the one here came up on my old blog. Perhaps not so heated or with so many comments - but I was left equally confused.
I have now moved to West Yorkshire (Halifax) and have an allotment. Last year the town was full of what I took to be Oxford Ragwort - but not this year. Even on my allotment there is none - though I was expecting it to have seeded.
I have also inherited a kind of ragwort bush from the previous allotmenteer - along with cinnabar caterpillars. It's very beautiful. I mentioned it on a recent post on my blog (Loose and Leafy in Halifax)
https://looseandleafyinhalifax.blogspot.com/2018/07/proof-of-existence-and-allotment-photos.html
and posted a photograph of it while it was in flower.
Given the hostility towards ragwort I chopped off all the flowers once they had finished so they wouldn't send seeds all over the place. This article from Friends of the Earth says that unless earth is bare nearby it's better to let them fall and not germinate. (On an allotment there is a lot of bare earth.)
https://friendsoftheearth.uk/nature/ragwort-poisonous-ragwort-mythbuster
So I am still at sea and do hope that through further discussion / comments from people yet to read your post, we may learn more.
In the meantime I will treasure my ragwort 'bush' (which will probably turn out to be something else completely!) on the grounds that it's very pretty, insects love it and there are no horses anywhere nearby to eat it.
Really glad you posted your post.
Lucy. Dear Lucy - thank you for your informative post. Of course anyone may still
contribute - it is all very interesting and really the comments seem to reflect the idea of ragwort throughout the country. I understand that it only becomes really dangerous after it is dried - ie baled into hay with the surrounding grass for example.
I understand, having discussed the comments with my friend, that she used to write to the local paper every year asking people to destroy plants but stopped doing so because she had so many replies andphone calls some of which were quite abusive. It is certainly a subject which seems to rise hackles.
I don't want to prolong matters but there has been quite a nasty personal attack on me. I don't really want to respond to that line of argument. It is fruitless to get into an angry exchange. I just want to explain the science. I think this would be genuinely useful to the blog writer and I therefore offer this in a spirit of friendship.
I have never met any of the other posters on this thread. Nobody phoned me to ask me to back them up.
I monitor the internet for this stuff. As I will establish my name is well known and I am trusted as an expert by several nature conservation bodies who are concerned that the campaign induced panic about the plant is severely impacting the environment.
You say that your friend's donkeys were diagnosed. Well there are problems with this. The symptoms are indistinguishable from other kinds of liver damage. Quite often only blood tests are done and these only show liver damage, which can be from a variety of causes. Because the campaign against ragwort has falsely inflated the number of poisoning cases many vets now think that it is so common that a blood test is enough. Recent research however has shown that when liver samples are actually examined only small percentage fit ragwort poisoning, and remember that this has other causes.
I have written a page on my website about this. and I use an excerpt from my own writing below.
The toxins in ragwort are called Pyrrolozine Alkaloids but because that is such a mouthful we call them PAs.
In order to progress further with the diagnosis than a simnple blood test you have to establish the presence of a enlarged liver cells in a form known as "Hepatic Megalocytosis".
Professor Robert B. Moeller, Jr Professor of Clinical Veterinary Pathology at University of California, Davis has written about this and he says.
"Hepatic megalocytosis is observed with certain toxic insults, particularly pyrrolizidine alkaloid toxicosis and aflatoxin toxicosis. This lesion is not observed grossly and must be reviewed histologically."
Reviewing something histologically and not observing is grossly means that it cannot be determined just by looking at the liver but a sample must be taken and examined under a microscope.
Also, it is not only PAs that can cause the problem. Aflatoxins, which are very common, are produced by mould species that may grow on stored hay, silage or other feed and are an indistinguishable poison.
Nobody, no vet, no one, can tell the difference between PA poisoning and Aflatoxin poisoning. They look identical under the microscope.
You can find more details on this on this on my website at http://www.ragwortfacts.com/ragwort-poisoning-no-test-can-confirm-ragwort-poisoning.html You can find the details of the book which I quoted and other references there.
But remember it isn't I who say this. I am simply reporting the research done by experts such as Professor Moeller.
As I said I believe in EVIDENCE not AUTHORITY. Even if I had been published in Nature , which I haven't been yet. :-) It would not make me right. Only the evidence does that!
Friends of the Earth have published a briefing paper on this issue. I was one of the experts they used to write it. https://cdn.friendsoftheearth.uk/sites/default/files/downloads/Ragwort%20-%20Problem%20plant%20or%20scapegoat%20-%20Briefing%20Nov%202016.pdf
They also have a blog posting on their website which people may care to read https://friendsoftheearth.uk/nature/ragwort-poisonous-ragwort-mythbuster
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